Cilia: We want to talk about painful sex and the pelvis today and before this call, I was sitting down with your bio of everything that you wrote me and I’m just like, wow, you have an extensive background of all these different trainings!!

I think it’s very interesting that you studied architecture and now you’re working with the pelvic floor and just making that metaphor of how the pelvic floor is the foundation. In architecture there’s a foundation of a building so I’d love to know your thoughts and your perspective of how you look at the pelvic floor, the bones, the muscles from that perspective of having that architecture training.

And also maybe we start with your journey of how you got here.

Steffi: Yeah, I did study architecture, but I’m definitely not doing anything with architecture anymore. I’m working with the body now. When I was studying architecture, I dove deep into yoga and yoga led me to dive into the pelvis.

Cilia: Okay

Steffi: You were talking about architecture and the pelvis. I actually saw and still see the body as a building. Like when I put someone in a yoga posture, I think about where to put every part of the body to create the best possible building or posture and body. Putting every bone on top of each other.

Cilia: Yeah and they tell us in yoga teacher training to look at the hands and the feet first and then go up.

Steffi: Yeah, you start at the ground, you start at the foundation. So I love that you already made that connection and this you’re really right, the pelvis and the pelvic floor, it’s the base of our body.

Of course the base starts at the feet, but then when we look at our torso and the part of our body with all the organs and all the stuff going on, then the pelvis is absolutely the base. But yeah, I dove into the pelvis because I was dealing with my own pelvic issues.

When I was doing my advanced yoga teacher training, they were asking us to do a personal project and you could do basically anything you like. And I thought, well, I think it might be interesting to see how yoga can help someone who experienced painful sex. Because a big part of the painful sex is a muscle and with yoga we work with muscles. So I thought, why not research painful sex and the pelvis?

Cilia: Mm-hmm.

Steffi: When I was doing that project, there was actually a research going on, I think in California, where they were looking into how yoga could support women who have not a… Well, they also did the tight pelvic floor, but they had good results for the pelvic floor that’s a little bit too loose. And that I found it amazing that I was researching it and there was actually real research going on.

Women who experience incontinence really, really benefit from doing yoga. Because the basis in yoga is our pelvis as well and we work a lot with our core and that’s from where we build up all the other postures. So yeah. So I dove into the pelvis and yeah, it went everywhere.

I did a training with a pelvic floor physio, but I also went into bodywork and I give belly massages. The belly massage that I do, it’s called qi nèi zang, which is a Taoist massage. I found it so amazing because it really helps to release stuck stress, trauma from your body and also specifically your lower belly and your pelvis and I found much relief from that.

So I started to train in that as well. But the pelvis stayed really central in all that I’m doing and right now I’m helping women who experience pelvic pain, who experience painful sex. I support them in their journey back to health, in their journey of healing their own body. And I really love supporting them.

Cilia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’m curious to how that journey looks like for… I feel like people who are born with uteruses, there’s so many different chapters in life. You know, there’s pregnancy, there’s postnatal, there’s perimenopausal, menopause, and I’m curious what the differences are with all of that and how that journey looks like and if that’s something that you also tap into with your work.

Steffi: Well, what I found the most interesting thing is that we never learn about pelvic health until you either get pregnant or you get an issue going on within your pelvis or with the womb or with the vulva. And that was something that was like, there’s so much we can do to prevent all those things.

Cilia: Yeah

Steffi: If we just learn about our pelvic health and how to take care and yeah really take care of ourselves and our pelvis…and the pelvis changes the pelvic floor changes throughout our different cycles.

When we as women move into menopause the pelvis shifts with the uterus shrinking. That has an effect on the other organs within the pelvis and how that sits on our pelvic floor muscles. The same goes when you are pregnant and when you have a baby inside, it’s the pelvic floor that’s carrying all that. And then when you give birth, it’s the pelvic floor that needs to open and also works in, well, it’s a lot of work for the uterus to push the baby out.

Cilia: Wow, yeah

Steffi: All those things really affect our pelvic floor.

Cilia: I was doing some keyword research an hour before this call and I was looking up…I think I was looking up “painful sex and the pelvis” and then also separately just typing in “pelvic floor”, “painful sex” and seeing what comes up. And you’re right, all of the results had to do with either pregnancy or menopause. There was nothing else.

I even looked up cause I was curious about what are people Googling about pelvic yoga? And there were zero, like zero questions popped up about pelvic yoga. And then when I scrolled down to the other results.. it was such scarce results. People don’t know that pelvic yoga is a thing.

I barely honestly even knew pelvic yoga was a thing until maybe like right before finding your account. And you make a very good point that it’s something that we need to know about to know how to take care of ourselves. Because we all have pelvises no matter what gender we are, we have a pelvis.

A Balance between Relaxing AND Strengthening

Cilia: What are some of the things that you wish people were asking about your pelvic floor?

Steffi: Well, I think one thing it’s important that our pelvic floor and specifically the muscles are healthy, that they are able to contract, but also able to relax. So a lot of time we are told to do strengthening exercises because we need a strong pelvic floor. Now, although I do agree that our pelvic floor needs to carry a lot, but at the same time…

We don’t want to overwork it.

And we also need to learn how to soften and relax and release the pelvic floor. Because a lot of times for people, the pelvic floor is already a little bit tight because of stress. We live in a very stressful world that all is being held within our body. And then our pelvic floor is being tight and tense.

We tuck the tail a lot, the way we sit, the way we are being, we really tuck that tailbone under. But when you tuck the tailbone under, the pelvic floor muscles are being shortened. We actually want to lengthen them, but we also need to be able to contract them.

So it’s finding that balance and a lot of times I feel like the message is to really strengthen it a lot and especially after birth.

The Truth about Kegels

Cilia: Yeah, and to do Kegels while you’re sitting in your desk.

Steffi: Yeah, and do you really know how to do a Kegel? Has anyone ever really sat down with you and walked you through it? You get that when you go to a pelvic floor physio when you are having issues They talk you through it, they teach you how to do it correctly.

But if you just learn that it’s about the same movement when you’re holding your pee… That’s not enough because our pelvic floor muscles are so… it’s three layers, it’s so many different parts. It’s not just one muscle. It’s so many different muscles working together. And it’s not just about holding your pee because we also have the back door, we have the anus, we have the perineum. It’s a big muscle. It’s not just on the front.

Cilia: So would those three parts be how you would direct someone to do Kegel or does it depend on the person’s body? Is it different for everyone depending on their own body or “issues”?

Steffi: Different cues work for different people. And I would say the best way is to insert your finger and feel. So if you feel when you contract and you feel that around your finger the muscles are pulling in and up, you’re working the muscles. But if you don’t feel anything, then not a lot is happening. Or if you feel like a really tight squeeze, maybe you’re overdoing it.

Maybe there it’s a little bit more tight. And you can insert your finger in the vagina, but you can also do it in the anus and see how it is there. Because like I said, we have the front, we have the back, we have a left side and a right side. You might notice when you do it that only the left side is contracting and the right side is fairly loose and you don’t feel anything or the other way around or the front and the back.

It’s very, I think beautiful, but difficult also a little bit, because there are so many different parts.

How Taboos affect our Pelvic Floor

Cilia: I’m curious your thoughts about how…when a society has taboos around sexuality and essentially your body…how is that affecting us knowing about our pelvic floor and being able to connect with it? And being able to even going to a doctor and admitting that you need some sort of care for the pelvic floor? That could be traumatizing for some people or like scary because of the taboos or maybe even because of trauma. I’m curious to know your thoughts about that.

Steffi: I think it absolutely is a big influence. If I’m talking for myself, it really took some time to actually go to my GP and say, hey, I am having pain with sex. Because the guy that I have, I have a younger GP now, but the one that I had was really old, like my father’s age. It feels weird to talk with him about it, because the doctor has known me my whole life and I went there for quite some years. It doesn’t feel nice somehow.

For me it felt really awkward and I felt a little bit ashamed. There is a taboo on it absolutely also here in the Netherlands and I’ve heard that a lot with my clients and with other women I’m talking about these things with. It doesn’t mean that here in the Netherlands we don’t go, but there’s still a taboo. Especially, I think, because we don’t talk a lot about how sex can be painful. When I first started to experience painful sex, I really thought that I was alone.

Cilia: There’s kind this, at least from my perspective, this expecting it to hurt, especially like the first time you have sex, like there’s an expectation of that.

The Pelvis-Throat Connection

Steffi: Oh yeah, true. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That’s, I think that also is part of why women or people with vulvas and vaginas, they just push through and they just, I don’t know how you say that in English, but if I translate it from Dutch, it’s like clenching your teeth.

Cilia: Yeah

Steffi: And you just push through. Because, yeah, the sex, “you do it for your partner,” for the guy. And as a woman, “you’re not supposed to really enjoy it anyway”. Things like that. I think that also play a role for a lot of women who experience painful sex and don’t talk about it.

Cilia: And that’s sometimes the distinction that people make with speaking.. I’d be curious to know with all of the trainings you’ve had, I know that at least in yoga and the system of the chakras, there’s this connection between the throat chakra and the pelvic floor. And usually there’ll be pictures put side by side of the muscles and how similar they look.

Is there actual scientific evidence of them being connected? Or is that just something that there’s a [visual] similarity?

Steffi: Well, there is a similarity, but when you look at a human being conceived when we’re still an embryo, the throat and the pelvis are still together, and then when the embryo develops, that’s where the spine develops in between.

Cilia: Oh, interesting

Steffi: So there’s an embryotic, if you say that in English, connection.

Cilia: Yeah, yeah.

Steffi: And then there’s definitely an energetic connection between the throat and between the pelvis. And then if you look at the muscles, like you said, you see those beautiful pictures next to each other, they’re very similar.

And I see that also a lot, I think I see that in myself, but also in the women I work with, a lot of times people with a tight pelvic floor, pelvic pain, vaginismus, etc…they find it hard to really open the throat and make these animal kind of sounds and just letting go.

That’s something I sometimes still struggle with as well. And I think a lot of people struggle with that, but I definitely see that with all the people and women I’m working with that they find that hard.

Cilia: Yeah. You mentioned before how people will just women will just like grit their teeth and go through it. So they’re having that tightness and that pain, and then they’re not saying anything. Then it’s interested that both the tightness in both areas get worse.

Also since we were talking about cultural taboos, I think something that also doesn’t help is that there’s kind of an importance put on being tight, like on having a tight vagina.

Steffi: Yeah! Yeah, I see, I sometimes see those things coming by and I’m like We don’t want a tight vagina. Please no, no Because It sounds good but it’s all for the guy’s pleasure and the woman Will have pain a really tight vagina. I will say it’s overly tight pelvic floor muscles And yeah, please don’t.

Focus on your own pleasure. Yeah.

Cilia: Haha, yeah. Would you like to share any like maybe exercises to go if people know that they’re really tight to relax?

Steffi: Well, we were talking about the connection between the throat and the pelvis. A really nice way of finding relaxation in the pelvis and the pelvic floor is a breathing exercise. It’s called the bumblebee breath, where you hum. And when you hum, you relax your throat, but you can feel it all the way humming, vibrating down into your pelvis. And it’s really easy.

But when you do it, you feel the vibration in your throat and in your jaw. If you focus and you really settle down into your body, you can feel it all the way down into your pelvis, into your vagina, into your pussy. You can feel that vibration. That vibration will help to relax.

Another way to use your breath to relax and to create space and to soften is just deep breathing. Belly breathing, but not so much that you’re pushing your belly out with your muscles, but you’re really breathing into your diaphragm, into your lower ribs, so you can really feel the lower ribs opening up on each inhale and that you feel as a natural reaction the belly rise.

It’s not pushing, but it’s a natural rising and then a natural softening back down. It’s not pulling in, but just relaxing back down. And when you breathe down, you can breathe all the way down into your pelvic floor muscles.

If you stay focused and you do it a couple of times, you can actually start to feel those pelvic floor muscles respond to the breath. That’s so healthy for the muscles because that’s what they naturally want to do. They want to move with the breath. And the more movement, the more blood flow, the more energy flow, the healthier the tissue and the muscles become.

When we don’t breathe with that much depth and we breathe more higher in our chest, there’s no movement. The muscles get more tight and more stuck more dry and we just want to make it moving and flowing and happy and healthy.

Cilia: Mm-hmm. That’s interesting. It’s really cool how just some breaths are so helpful for the body on a physical level, on an emotional level, spiritual level. I love that humming you shared because it’s like you get a free little sound bath. I love sound baths.

Steffi: Yeah, the humming is really nice. Even that for some people is hard, because you’re making sound but that’s such a great first step of trying to open up the throat, making sound, and learning to create softness and space in your pelvis.

Cilia: Yeah, yeah. About that softness and space…

You’ve mentioned how most people were stressed, were tucking the tailbone under so the pelvic muscles are tight. Our daily lives right now, for most of us, it’s, you know, very fast. We’re not living in tribes, we’re living inside, we’re doing and doing and doing.

So I can only imagine that making more space away from being productive all the time is maybe also helpful for the pelvic floor to release that tension and stress.

Steffi: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s when I work with people, we start with the breath, but we also look at the rest of the life and having these moments of relaxation of connecting to your body that creates space in your life, in your mind, in your body, in your pelvis, in your soul.

I think it’s so important that we, that everybody creates those moments throughout their day where they’re just connecting to their body.

Cilia: How do you like to create those moments?

Steffi: I start every morning on my meditation pillow and breathe and I usually do some grounding there as well and connecting. I love to breathe from my heart to my womb and then back up to the heart, really creating that connection between the heart and the womb.

Slowing Down for your Pelvic Health

Then throughout the day I just take moments whenever I notice that I’m really distracted or I’m really in my head. I sit down, take a couple breaths and maybe that’s just one minute, maybe it’s two minutes, but that is already such a big change.

I also love doing yoga nidra naps in the afternoon.

Cilia: Ah, yes, those are the best. Even just a half hour one feels like you slept for like eight hours!

Steffi: Absolutely. Yeah, if I don’t have a lot of time, I even sometimes just do 20 minutes and that just really it gives so much. It’s I think it’s amazing how deeply it relaxes you and I have a tracker that tracks my heartbeat and everything like in my sleep and Whenever I do a yoga nidra, it always thinks I’m napping.

Cilia: I love that! I have a yoga nidra video I like to watch on YouTube and it’s 15 minutes of a yoga nidra and then it’s 15 minutes of sound healing and it’s so good. I have to set a little alarm for 30 minutes though because by the end I’m usually like about to fall asleep or I’m already sleeping.

Steffi: Great, that’s a good sign. I have a yoga nidra on insight timer that’s focused on pelvic healing. So where yeah where I use the rhythm of yoga nidra and the different steps of yoga nidra to really dive into the pelvis and do a little bit of womb healing as well.

Cilia: We’ll be sure to include that link for people to find. I’m curious if there are any questions that you wish I would ask you about either painful sex and the pelvis? Is there something that you maybe have on your heart that you’re like I really want to share this piece of information or knowledge or wisdom or inspiration or whatever it is.

Steffi: Well, I think one really important thing that I learned and I wish every one, women, men, all genders knew is that for a body with a vulva and a vagina, it takes 30 to 45 minutes to get fully ready for penetration.

Cilia: Oh yes.

Steffi: And a lot of times we get turned on and we want to have sex and then with sex I think everything is sex. I think that’s also something we need to change. There’s no foreplay, it’s all sex.

But we get turned on and then we immediately want to get the penis in the vagina and ready. But the body is not ready and that’s of course the big difference between a body with a penis and a body with a vagina is that the penis is ready in no time.

Cilia: Hahaha! Mm-hmm.

Steffi: But the vagina needs time to open, to engorge, to get all the blood flowing there, to get super wet. So it’s ready. And then also, even though she’s wet, use lube. I know when I was younger, I thought using lube was a bad thing, but it’s a good thing. Yeah.

Cilia: I’m sure there are a few people listening who hopefully feel validated by that. Because I feel like [for women are shamed a lot of times. I’ve definitely experienced that piece of how long it takes and even that shame could come from your own thoughts on how long it takes with whatever age you are now, compared to when you were a teenager or early 20s, where you’re just like ready. So yeah, it’s totally normal to take that time and to slow down.

Steffi: Yeah, and if you do take that time and you slow down, it’s so much more pleasurable. I think that’s also for me one reason among many others to take it slow and just take that time and to not rush because of course it already feels good but it can feel amazing so why not go for that amazing?

Cilia: Yeah, yeah, and that can totally change your perspective on sexuality and sex and even life in general. When you can slow down… an example that’s coming to me is how when you slow down with your food, you can really taste all the flavors and take in all the textures and having those little moments of pleasure in life just in the mundane.

That can be so fulfilling because normally we think we have to go on a vacation or, I don’t know, buy something luxurious in order to feel like life is great and perfect. But if we can just every day in these little mundane ways, really enjoy and take in pleasure, whether it is from sex, or food, or a cup of tea, or the sunlight on your skin, and there’s so many examples I can think of.

Steffi: Yeah, it adds such a beautiful layer to life.

What does self-love mean to you?

Cilia: What does self-love mean to you?

Steffi: For me self-love is really taking care of myself and my body, my pelvis. It’s really taking it slow. Taking the time and taking a lot of rest. I think we live in a world that’s so fast paced and I know besides my body, a lot of bodies are not made for that and we need rest.

Cilia: Yeah.

Steffi: So, yeah. I think rest is so important, I think. For a long time I lived my life in a way that I thought I needed to earn rest. So I needed to work really hard and then I could rest. But I’m getting into a phase of my life where I’m like… I’m resting anyway.

Cilia: Yeah, that’s… I want to celebrate you for that because that’s big.

Steffi: Yeah, it takes some time to get here.

Cilia: Yeah, and that’s also so relatable! In corporate (and many) jobs here, for some of them you need to work there for at least a year before you “earn” two weeks vacation. Like… you have to “earn” the rest.

Steffi: Yeah, it’s so ingrained in everything that we need to work hard and then you’re allowed to have rest. So you need to work five days and then you can have a weekend of two days, you can be free.

Cilia: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s because rest is usually seen as like being lazy or like wasting time. When if you, for example, are working on a big project that has a deadline and your in a stressful situation, taking a five minute break could be seen as a waste of time. Or something that you don’t have time for.

When the ironic thing is if you take five minutes to just take some breaths or lay down and not think of anything, you come back to whatever it is you’re doing with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective and able to do it better than you were five minutes ago. It’s such a ironic little paradox.

Steffi: Yeah, yeah. Also I think we… A lot of jobs you need to work eight hours every day and they pay you for the hours that you work, but I think we should actually pay people for what they give, what they produce

Cilia: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Steffi: The way I think of it, a lot of people can do the same work they are doing right now with less hours and just have more time for themselves to rest, to release. And for the business, they still get all the work done, but everybody will be happier. And a lot of times, you’re just sitting at your job, trying to get through the hours.

Cilia: Yeah.

Steffi: Not taking time off, not resting, not really there. So you’re working half. You can do the same work in half the time, if you’re rested and focused and happy.

Cilia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think it’s also an important thing to see that if companies did that, they’d be able to retain people rather than people who quitting and the company then dealing with the stress of finding someone else.

Steffi: Yeah.

Cilia: I think I think we might be headed in that direction, possibly. Of honoring more rest in the workplace. I feel like it’s happening very slowly. Really slowly.

Steffi: Really slowly Yeah

Cilia: And I don’t really mean to gender-ize things, but I think that comes from more women owned businesses happening these days because typically a woman is, you know, cyclical. There are times of the month where more rest is needed, whereas a man’s cycle or a testosterone body’s based cycle is more linear of there’s the peak of energy within a day rather than stretched out with a month.

The history of business, it’s been mostly male dominated and we’ve been shifting to having more women-owned businesses as well. So I think it might be coming from that. And also just knowing more. We have more information available now about rest.

Steffi: Absolutely. Yeah.

What makes you feel the most grounded?

Cilia: What makes you feel the most grounded?

Steffi: Mmm…breathing, definitely breathing. If I notice that I’m not grounded in my body what always does the trick to help me get back into my body is dancing.

Cilia: Ooh, love that.

Steffi: Moving the body really helps me to ground back into my body.

Cilia: Yeah, dancing is such a fun way to ground. I love doing that too.

Steffi: It’s so good. I always dance also a lot with my pelvis and my hips and to really move it and to create space and to let the energy flow in my pelvis. So it’s a great way to connect to the pelvis as well.

Cilia: Yeah, amazing. So there’s one question I usually ask towards the end, but I’ve been playing with adding an additional one that’s similar. So you’re the first person I’m asking this, and I’m curious to know what your answer will be.

What is your favorite part about being human?

Cilia: What is your favorite part about being human?

Steffi: Good question. I would say the body. Even though for me I’ve had, and sometimes still have if I’m stressed, if I’m not feeling well, my pelvis and stress, it plays up my pain and my tightness. So even though I’ve had a lot of issues and a lot of pain in my life, I love my body.

I love to feel my body. I love that experience of moving your body, feeling your body, breathing through your body, letting the energy flow through your body. I think that’s just something I really love doing every day. And I think that’s also part of why I love the work I do, where I do body work. I’m working with my body.

I think that’s also a big part of why I left the architecture world behind and went in a complete different direction because I love buildings, I love architecture. I can still, like yesterday I was in a, I was at a concert in a beautiful event location which was an old industrial building and I think the whole concert I was just looking up at the building and not so much at the band I was watching.

Cilia: Oh nice, yeah.

Steffi: Because that’s still something that lights me up. But the body, my body and other people’s body… I love touching other people’s body, that’s why I’m doing body work. I love guiding people back into their body, feeling their body, it’s amazing. This is our vessel, this is what we got here.

Cilia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. Did you always have this love of your body or was there like a pivotal entry point that helped you get to that?

Steffi: I definitely have not always loved my body. When you experience a lot of pain, it’s hard sometimes to love your body. And of course still there are some days that I am not such a big fan of the body, but most of the times I am.

I think for me what shifted was that I stumbled upon a free practice from Layla, from where we met, which is a breath work practice focused on loving your body. I did that every day for such a long time. And it just made that big transition of, hmm, no, I love my body. This is a good body.

Cilia: Nice.

You mentioned also that it can be hard to love your body when you feel pain. And I would love to give you the floor to maybe share how you react or relate to pain when you feel pain. Cause I’m sure a lot of people listening to this are experiencing or have experience chronic or acute pain and it’s it is hard.

I haven’t experienced it [chronic pain] myself but I’ve seen that it’s hard to not judge your own body or to wish it was different and to be in this space of like oh my whole day is ruined because I’m feeling this pain. So what is something you would say to someone who is in that kind of head space right now?

Steffi: Be kind to yourself. For me that meant taking pain medication. I know I’m in the yoga world where we “need” to be all natural and stuff…. But if you’re in a lot of pain and your body is in high stress because the pain is so much, take pain medication. It can make everything so much better and that’s something I really needed to learn.

Cilia: Mmm, yeah. Yeah.

Steffi: That’s something that I’ve recently learned. That in the past I would not do that and I would just breathe through it and just, I don’t know, use, I still love the hot water bottle. Warmth is amazing, but yeah, also depending on what kind of pain you have, of course. I imagine if you have a headache, you don’t wanna put the warm water bottle on your head.

But I think, yeah, being kind to yourself, listening to the body, if your body is screaming… yeah, try different things. Talk to your doctor. Also a good one, don’t try to do it on your own. And yeah, what really helps me is to… take my time.

I cancel things now when I’m having a bad day, when I have a painful day. Because the work I do, I do with my body and if my body is in pain I can’t really do the work I need to do on a level that I want to do it.

Cilia: Yeah, nice.

Steffi: Of course I can push through because that’s what we learn in our society that you just push through and you just keep going. I can do that. But should we? I think no.

It’s really about being kind to yourself, being soft to yourself. And I know I’ve had really bad moments where I was just hitting my body that it was in pain, like, I don’t want this anymore, it’s so much.

That’s okay too, if that happens. And if you’re in that space.

Cilia: Yeah, that’s a good stance to come from of, whatever is happening, it’s okay. Sometimes we add that extra shame onto how we react and then it just keeps on going and then you can’t get out of that.

I love what you said about the being kind to yourself. And there’s actually something that I saw that I underlined. I was flipping through this book. Have you read this book? [Body Conscious by Taryn Gaudin]

Steffi: Yeah, I love that book.

Cilia: I was flipping through it before our call and I saw something that I underlined that reminds me of what you just said. And it says, you can’t get your body’s communication wrong as long as you are being kind and loving towards yourself.

For the people listening to audio, the book is called Body Conscious by Taryn Gaudin.

But yeah, I loved what you said that being kind to yourself can sometimes be taking medication because that can be a big topic for, especially for people coming from the wellness space. Or people who… for me my mom growing up it was you drink your green tea or the ginger like it was always all natural. So i also have a hard time taking medication.

If i take an advil for a headache… it was a really bad headache but i’ve only started doing that recently so i love that you give that permission.

Steffi: Yeah, I think it’s just give yourself that permission and of course try the natural stuff first but if it’s not working, if it’s not giving enough relief, take the Advil

Cilia: Yeah and you’re not a failure if you’re taking meds.

Steffi: No. Absolutely not.

Cilia: It’s not that you failed. Yeah, it’s just a tool that the tool that that’s available.

Steffi: Yeah, I love that, it’s a tool.

What’s your favorite part about being a woman?

Steffi: It was quite a journey to get here but I love having my blood every month. I love my menstruation. In the past I hated it. I was like why do I have this?

Cilia: Mm, yeah, relatable.

Steffi: Of course, sometimes I still have that towards it because I can sometimes have PMS and have some issues going on but the moment the blood comes there’s so much space. It’s like a permission for myself to like go to release, to rest. I just love that.

Cilia: Yeah

Steffi: We as women have that moment every month where we can let go. Our body is really showing us the wisdom of letting go, how important that is. It’s really showing us how to do it.

Cilia: I love that. That’s a beautiful perspective that it’s our bodies wisdom showing us to let go. I love that so much. And I can relate.

Where to find Steffi

Cilia: For the people listening or watching, where can they find you and find out more about your work and possibly work with you as well?

Steffi: You can find me on Instagram on steffy von Brunner. And that’s also my website, steffyvonbrunner.com, where it’s all the info. And yeah, I’ll share the link for the Yoga Nidra on insight timer as well.

Cilia: Perfect, do you have any closing words before we end our recording?

Steffi: Just… love your pelvis.

Cilia: Yes, I love it.